Thanksgiving, Black Friday, NEED ADVICE!

[tabbiewolf]

Thanksgiving was a success! We brined the turkey this year, using a brine mix I got free from work last year, and it definitely improved the taste of the meat. Thanks to those who gave a thumbs up to the brining method -- even with the free mix, I don't think we would have tried it otherwise! Making a gravy base the night before also vastly improved the gravy, so that's something I highly recommend doing if you're crazy like us and like doing everything from scratch.

Also, as much as I love my family (not being sarcastic there), I do highly appreciate and probably prefer the "Thanksgiving with Friends" thing we've been running for the past two years and it's something I'd like to keep up.

As mentioned, the microwave started sparking on Tuesday. On Black Friday, with help from Frosty and Riismo and Lobst, Spot pulled the microwave down. It was put in…uh…very creatively:


Yes, that's a two-by-four. And yes, it has notches taken out of it so the screws that held up the microwave would fit. And yes, ONE OF THOSE SCREWS WAS MISSING.

The shelving above and next to the microwave appears to have been held on by load-bearing caulk and/or paint. The amount of effort that was put into doing it wrong was probably more than if they'd gotten someone to do it correctly. It was a spectacular failure! Well, not an altogether failure, because I mean the microwave didn't fall down…but dang. It could've.

So currently what's there is this:


Though we took out the vent, because it just lead up into the attic and was clogged with insulation…because it just lead up into the attic. Most microwaves don't really need an exterior vent anyway, and in fact we have acquired a new(er) microwave thanks to Riismo's folks remodeling their kitchen. It's the same model, only newer, so it even fits in the same mounting bracket. So we've got our winter project: rebuilding the shelves around the microwave and putting the new one in.

Speaking of winter projects, the possibility of a much more longterm one has come up. fenris_lorsrai knows someone who is getting rid of a ginormous printer, and I am seriously pondering the idea of starting my own printing service. More info about the printer can be found here (if you are interested personally, feel free to speak up about it; I can't afford the thing outright). The thing is, I have NO idea how the heck to run a printing service -- generally my idea of running a business is what I do already (please folks by drawing for them in exchange for money; not being a douchebag). Likewise, I have NO idea if it would ever be profitable: the printer would be a major investment, something I'd have to consider getting a small business loan for, and that's a BIG step for someone who has almost no idea what they're doing.

Anyone have any advice on this? tugrik, I'm looking in your direction, since you do printing professionally :) Likewise, anyone else with small business experience! Printing is something I am passionate about (I blame working at a newspaper), and it's definitely something I could see myself doing for awhile…but money is an issue, and I don't really want to be throwing it away if the odds are slim that I will ever make it back.

Comments

[corelog.livejournal.com]

My former roommate used to have a big printer like that, and a substantial library of art to print. He had this thing going where he licensed art from the creators, and then would offer on-the-spot printing in whatever size the customer wanted at cons and such. The artist would get a royalty from the sale.

Was a good idea (I think), but I don't think he was ever really able to make it work. There's just not enough demand for HUGE prints, certainly not at a price tolerable to the customer which is also decent for the artist and is sufficient to cover the cost of time and materials.

In the end, he ended up selling the printer and all the supplies for it to somebody who shipped it overseas. That was after it had sat unused for over four years, maybe longer.

[tabbiewolf.livejournal.com]

The thing about big printers is that they can do MORE than just ginormous art -- you can print multiple high quality prints in a number of sizes, and then slice them apart. I've gotten portfolios done this way thanks to tugrik :)

The handy thing about an enormous printer is the sheer quality of the prints they can do, and the fact that it could print on vinyl, canvas, and fabric.

It's something I still have to do some thinking over, because it is a MAJOR investment.

[dalesql.livejournal.com]

For the printer. For the money they are asking for it, probably not worth it. Unless you are planning on going into business as a high end print shop of some sort. I just don't see the money to support something like it in furry fandom.

[tabbiewolf.livejournal.com]

Oh, this wouldn't be fandom-specific. I'd probably try to get business from furries and comic conventions, but I'd also try to pick up business outside of that. So yes indeed, it would be for basically a high-end print shop...just out of our basement.

[tugrik.livejournal.com]

That is precisely the model of printer I own. I'll type up some stuff for you as soon as I get home!

[tabbiewolf.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much! I knew you'd know :)

[tugrik.livejournal.com]

If the printer is in good condition with medium-to-low service life on it, and if it's the non-PS model with the spectro, then that price is fair. If it's the PS model, that price is great! If no spectro, take a pass or offer notably lower.

I shot the person a question about its usage and options to see if they'll respond; that'll help me figure out if it's a good bid.

If you get one: replacement heads are $50. There are six of them. Expect to replace them once a year with multi-fandom-level use. More with pro use. Much, much less with just furry use.

Inks are both amazing and annoying. Amazing: the per-mL price is so much lower than any consumer printer could hope to be; nearly a 5x improvement, sometimes more. But the quantities you buy them in make them spendy. Best price is to get the double-packs on Amazon.com. There are *12* carts. Each double-pack costs $90-120. So that's between $1080-1440 of ink for a 'full reload'. The nice part is that it's very good at sipping ink and only using just what it needs, so you only end up replacing a cart at a time, spaced out over the lifespan of the printer, instead of a huge batch of inks all at once.

Knowing how much ink is left in it and how old those inks are definitely have an effect on the used purchase price -- as you can see how much the ink is worth.

If you actually get it, the best thing you can do is leave it on (and covered) in room-temperature storage 100% of the time. It will sleep and sip power. It'll wake up every day or two and do ink-checks and spit-tests, which keep the heads in best condition. If you do this your head service life will double.

Keep in mind: it is a discontinued model. Service is painful and expensive. It's very hard to fix yourself. If its in good condition, tho, the Z series are tanks. Mine's 5 years old and still trucking. I've only had to replace 2 of the six heads, even! I've had one failure that was covered under warranty. Otherwise it would have been an $800 repair.

Speedwise it's definitely not the fastest. Color wise it's near or at the top of the pack; only the 3200 (its brother) really beats it, and that's only barely. Due to the built in spectro it's by far the easiest printer to color correct of any of the pro line printers. Setup and maintenance of new paper stocks is fire-and-forget. Final tweaking takes me 1/8th the time that it did on any of my prior Epson or Canon gear.

Downside: HP is getting out of that market and it shows. The 3200 should have been rev'd two years ago. It's the end of the line for the Z's, I'm afraid. If I had to buy new, I'd buy Canon's high end gear right now... but wow, would I miss the spectro on the Z.

Costs: Considering at-cost inks and fine-art papers it can be as low as $2/sqFt to as high as $4.50/sqFt. Canvas is more like $5-6. I barely charged more than that as I simply printed for fandom to help people get good prints, and had a teeny bit of margin to help pay for the printer over the years. Everything else I took at a loss. If you were to run it professionally you'd need to charge $8/sqFt and up depending on media, which is getting into the pricing of real print shops. And remember, you also need to buy large format cutting equipment, and figuring out how to ship-- which is the worst part of the biz. Solve the cutting/packing/shipping part, and the rest is dirt easy. And if you're not out for PROFIT but just to make the printer pay for itself, you can undercut most anybody's market and get a lot of work.

[tugrik.livejournal.com]

So, to summarize:

Upsides: good price (if it's in good condition and inks are left)
Great printer for quality; nearly the best in fact!
Easiest to get the colors right, in the artist-RIGHT kind of way
Workhorse

Downsides: it does nothing small. 8.5x11 is a PITA with this printer. Don'tuse it for anything under,say, 14x17. Everything you buy for it will be big and spendy - big ink carts, big paper rolls, big cutters, big area to put it in, etc etc etc. And due to it being way past EoL on HP's timeline, if something goes wrong with it, it'll go REALLY WRONG and really spendy.

If you want a hobby-biz and you want it to pay for itself, but you gotta put in a lot of unpaid elbow grease, this is an outstanding printer for the task.

IF you want a REAL biz and you want to make a profit, this is way too high a risk. Go to a real big-printer store, get a real rep, buy a modern printer with a service contract and full support. Buffer your stock, buffer your maintenance, and be prepared for equipment downtime. Also don't expect to make very much money unless you can find high-dollar clients willing to pay for high-dollar quality that you spend time on getting right.

If it were $2k with half-full-carts in good condition, and you were willing to put in another $1500 for inks/media/stock, and you were only serving local multiple-fandoms, I say go for it. It'll be fun if you have the room. But be prepared to lose all that money if it goes belly up on you too quickly, as it'll be nigh-unfixable without sinking a ton more money into it.

At the price he wants... it's more of a risk. Still potential worth it, and its with market price. Just be cautious and prepared, fiscally.

[tabbiewolf.livejournal.com]

This is supremely excellent, amazing advice! Thank you!

I think at this point, with our savings as they are (and the fact that we're still operating on one car between two people, and the cost is a car down payment), it would probably be wise to not invest in the printer. Which is a shame, really, because it'd be a lot of fun, but the lines you laid between fun/hobby and fun/professional are REALLY good, and an excellent way of putting it!

Hopefully I can at least get the word spread to help sell the thing to someone who actually needs it :)